Pocket Listings Yes or No?

David Goldsmith

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And let me point out how the majority of sellers in Manhattan right now are expecting to get over market. I've never seen a down market where sellers perception was that they were "losing money" (even when they were selling for more than they paid, but that's a long different subject) where they didn't try to squeeze every last nickel out of a sale.
 
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Noah Rosenblatt

Talking Manhattan on UrbanDigs.com
Staff member
You could ask various brokers you know if they specifically make that part of their pitch. For the sellers I have spoken to who have been pitched the concept, not a single one has said the agent pitching mentioned that. I don't think it's valid for agents to just assume a seller somehow knows it if they pitch all the alleged benefits and are silent on that drawback.
Never assume. Right. In a transactional marketplace, I would guess most of these situations prob play out like you describe here
 
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Noah Rosenblatt

Talking Manhattan on UrbanDigs.com
Staff member
And let me point out how the majority of sellers in Manhattan right now are expecting to get over market. I've never seen a down market where sellers perception was that they were "losing money" (even when they were selling for more than they paid, but that's a long different subject) where they didn't try to squeeze every last nickel out of a sale.
I think most buyers/sellers will ignore transaction costs when looking at pnl for re trades. Thats the killer and why you dont see much speculative short term flipping in this market. That and coop nature of our housing stock
 
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MCR

Active member
I suspect there are some sellers who are unaware they are leaving money on the table, but nobody really cares about this on the high end. Do you see this going on with run-of-the-mill properties? That would be cause for concern for me from a consumer protection POV.
 

Noah Rosenblatt

Talking Manhattan on UrbanDigs.com
Staff member
I suspect there are some sellers who are unaware they are leaving money on the table, but nobody really cares about this on the high end. Do you see this going on with run-of-the-mill properties? That would be cause for concern for me from a consumer protection POV.
right, the high end can care less. Great question on run of the mill side, we only have forums like these to hear about cases and situations. Like David mentions below...wish there was a way to track this somehow, so we have to just assume its out there and how prevalent I guess
 
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Noah Rosenblatt

Talking Manhattan on UrbanDigs.com
Staff member
You could ask various brokers you know if they specifically make that part of their pitch. For the sellers I have spoken to who have been pitched the concept, not a single one has said the agent pitching mentioned that. I don't think it's valid for agents to just assume a seller somehow knows it if they pitch all the alleged benefits and are silent on that drawback.
Agree. Really need a batch of sellers for this survey. I feel if I ask my colleagues they will tell me half truths
 
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David Goldsmith

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Today I got an email with the attached. I think it goes to show the perception of how widespread very average properties are being marketed in this manner. It is my personal belief that it is not good for the market, is leading to more widespread lack of transparency, shows there is more excess inventory than recent reports would have us believe, will lead to further consumer distrust, and is something which needs to be dealt with.
 

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Noah Rosenblatt

Talking Manhattan on UrbanDigs.com
Staff member
Today I got an email with the attached. I think it goes to show the perception of how widespread very average properties are being marketed in this manner. It is my personal belief that it is not good for the market, is leading to more widespread lack of transparency, shows there is more excess inventory than recent reports would have us believe, will lead to further consumer distrust, and is something which needs to be dealt with.
Hmm, I see what your saying. Who is this being mass marketed too? I always wondered if/when a marketplace would exist where renters/sellers post their needs and the inventory comes to them, whether active or off market or planned or whatever.
 

David Goldsmith

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Staff member
This is broker to broker looking for listings. Because rather than being readily available in a database they are being "pocketed." I find it interesting that for decades brokers have been pushing the advantages of a central repository for listings so consumers can find them, but now that they want to get an advantage they are coming up with ways to control the flow of information for their own advantage. And I believe a certain amount are being disingenuous trying to convince owners it is in their best interest to "pocket list" when in reality it's mostly serving the agent's agenda.
 

David Goldsmith

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To owners who think they or their property is so special that it needs to be on "super secret double pocket listing":
This is Jimmy Fallon's penthouse in an exclusive Coop on Gramercy Park. If this doesn't need to be some super secret "off market" listing, why does yours?
 

David Goldsmith

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"no bidding wars"
So they are promising to show these "off market" listings to only 1 potential purchaser? Are they abiding by the fiduciary duty to sellers?
I personally don't think this portrayal is genuine.
 

Rudi Hanja

New member
im sure Compass keeps a internal database of off-market properties available only to their own agents and buyers. if they can then sell those properties internally, Compass keeps both sides of the commission. they can also attract more direct buyers by promoting this "secret" inventory...if only Compass agents have access to this database, buyers are more likely to want to work with a Compass agent. hence, the push to get sellers to go this route..all part of a grand scheme to win market share.
 

David Goldsmith

All Powerful Moderator
Staff member
Wouldn't that run counter to both the REBNY UCBA and the NYS Dept of State feelings about dual agency, buyer/seller representation, etc?
 
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