The New Dev Problem: Standardizing The Listing System
A: I encourage all brokers and followers of this market to try to read this post in its entirety; as it touches a very important structural issue in this market. It is somewhat Inside Baseball, so consider yourself warned. At this point in development, I know the broker sharing system inside and out. I know all the flaws, all the tricks, and all the strange things that occur in the listing system. It all has to do with the system structure and the brokers/developers that maintain their listings. In the end, the data is only as good as the broker/developer that maintains it - my only wish is that BROKERS PLEASE UPDATE THE TRUE STATUS YOUR LISTINGS REGULARLY!!!! If old listings were never updated, then guess what, UPDATE THEM NOW top the proper status! This makes measuring market activity accurately quite a cumbersome task. Trust me. The only other people I know that understand how hard this task is are the folks at Realplus, OLR, BrokersNYC, Streeteasy and Propertyshark.com. The last final hurdle I see is to somehow standardize the listing system in order to solve what I will call, The New Dev Problem.
Have you ever wondered what the real Active Inventory is in the Manhattan marketplace? You can't just count every listing preset to Active; why, because think about how many of those have not been recently updated by the listing broker. There needs to be quality control to filter out the stale listings and other poisons that otherwise would affect a good measurement. When you think back to the development boom, a whole new problem arises: LACK OF INVENTORY RECORDS. If you are at all a follower of this market, I am sure this popped into your head at one point or another. How do we accurately measure something if there is no data for it?
Imagine its 2006, right at the start of the euphoric phase of the most recent boom and a new 254-unit development finally got the approval to begin marketing. Naturally, the developer will release a batch of units first, try to sell those out, file a new amendment with the attorney general's office if prices are to be changed on unreleased units, and then release a new batch of inventory at a different price point then the first batch. This 'developer model' for lack of a better phrase, created a sense of urgency in the mindset of consumers as buyers rushed to buy in before the next phase of higher priced units were released. This model also has consequences from a listing system point of view which ripples to a consequence for any system trying to measure the market.
Taking our example, we have a hypothetical 254-unit development all ready to go. So, the developers sales team goes ahead and creates a listing record for 30 or so units representing their first batch; their first offering to the public. The developer decides not to release all units to the public likely because:
a) they dont want to 'flood' the market with new inventory and the consequences of having 254 units competing with each other at the same time...
b) simple confusion..it requires their sales team to be more knowledgeable of all the different floorplans and little things associated with each and every unit right off the bat
c) they want to secure the 'developer model' of creating a sense of urgency for consumers by raising prices on later phases of unit release...
d) the sponsor may decide not to sell all units, and perhaps hold some units or rent out some units depending on product demand, the developer's financial situation/loan terms, or general market conditions...the sponsor has every right to make these kinds of decisions
The important thing is that no one can deny the developer of a large new development the right to keep some units OFF MARKET or withhold some units from ever being for sale in the first place. In reality, I believe the main reason developers withhold units is "explanation C" above as its my opinion the sponsor of the project would prefer to sell all units, make their money and move on. It is when the market does not co-operate that alternative decisions must be made.
Back to the problem. How is anybody supposed to accurately measure the Inventory Side of the Manhattan marketplace when units that in reality are available for sale, have no history records and are being held back for various reasons? The public calls this Shadow Inventory:
Shadow Inventory = New Dev Unreleased UnitsBut there is a solution to this problem and its very simple. All that is required is a listing system that makes it mandatory for a New Project (any kind of new development) to create an initial history record for ALL UNITS included in the first approved offering plan once the first phase of marketing begins. That is, the Schedule A of the offering plan that lists all units in the offering should have a unique record created right off the bat. The sales team for the developer has every right to place how ever many units they want to FUTURE, a status update that is in our listing system, and only release the pre-determined set units to ACTIVE to maintain the exact model they used in prior years. But every unit in the new building now has an initial record, with an initial history that can be measured. The public will see no change at all and will continue to only find released units chosen by the developer and their sales team.
WHY ITS A PROBLEM: In reality, unreleased units were for sale; they just were not released to the public and had no record created that the unit ever even existed. Therefore, what we have is a situation where the sales teams uploaded a batch of signed contracts in one swoop (for ease) well AFTER the actual contract signed date and leaving us with a new unit whose first history record is set to CONTRACT SIGNED. Ask yourself, how can a unit go to contract if it was never a part of ACTIVE inventory? It can't? In reality, this unit was on the market and available for sale. It had to be if a buyer signed a contract for it and ultimately closed on it? The result is that anyone trying to measure both active inventory and pending sales will have a problem as a result of how these new developments handled the maintenance of their inventory:
Problem w/ Active Inventory: It fails to capture the New Dev's shadow inventory that was never released but in reality was there; Active Inventory for 2005-2007 was greatly under-inflated
Problem w/ Pending Sales: Timeliness is sacrificed as sales teams for developers fail to update systems as contracts are signed PLUS you can have a surge in pending sales and see no relationship in Active inventory trends; because there was no active inventory in the first place. This causes a flaw between pending sales and ACRIS public record sales, where pending sales SHOULD lead actual closed sales caught by ACRIS.
This is the reason why you see plenty of new development sales on Streeteasy but see no associated listing for the unit. Clearly there should be one.
The Solution: Design the broker sharing system to make it mandatory for new developments to create a record for ALL units at the time of first marketing based on the Schedule A of listed units in the first offering plan filed with the attorney general's office.
I don't care if a 254-unit takes 220 units and places them in the FUTURE or OFF MKT category right off the bat; listings they can activate at a later time. That is the developer's decision and right. But if they did it this way at least we can measure it as a surge in off market inventory, knowing that when the unreleased units become active, off market trends will reflect the shift. Furthermore, for new devs only, a safety mechanism should be put in place that makes it necessary for sales teams to ACTIVATE an off market listing prior to updating the status to CONTRACT SIGNED. It should be impossible for a unit to go directly from off market to contract signed. Rather, the listing should be updated to ACTIVE and then allowed to be changed to contract signed. This is an easy structural safety mechanism that would reflect reality and solve a very big problem when measuring this markets changing trends without changing a thing for the developers wishing to control unreleased units.
As it is now, we have to pull out all new devs with no prior ACTIVE state from our data so as to not poison all the efforts we made to enhance accuracy for measuring the existing resale marketplace in Manhattan. It won't affect active inventory because units were not released in the first place. For pending sales, it will only affect new dev listings whose status was first set to contract signed, with no prior ACTIVE state declared - data we deem as inaccurate and big time lagging. I checked thousands of these listing records with the 'image' documents recorded in ACRIS to find out that in reality these contracts were signed some 12-24 months earlier; the poison that screwed up the charts. So, we willfully but reluctantly removed the poison.
In the end, pulling these flawed listings out will make the data significantly more accurate. Not perfect, but a more accurate measurement of the markets. That's what its all about, measuring this fast moving markets inventory as listings go from one state to another. The good news is that for the most part these listings have closed and if re-marketed, will be a part of existing resale inventory which our platform measures quite well. Its a future new dev boom that will not be captured if nothing is done ahead of time; although the likelihood of new boom in the coming years are low.
If you read this far, props to you and hopefully you understand a bit more about how difficult this Manhattan market is to accurately measure - this is just one issue. I truly believe change will prove helpful for everyone that follows this marketplace; brokers, firm execs, and the consumers they service! Even the developers will benefit. Transparency is GOOD!



Posted by skeptic
Thu May 13th, 2010 09:57 AM
Manhattan real estate is gamed! The big brokerage firms and the biggest brokers will manipulate the game any chance they get to enhance sales. I wish you luck, but the problem is much deeper than you think.
Posted by Noah
Thu May 13th, 2010 10:31 AM
skeptic - doubtful. the system is not gamed, its just flawed. conspiracy theorists will come out with this junk to further their bias or agenda. The system is flawed because of the topic of this discussion and because of:
1. sharing system is not standardized
2. not oversight of listings
3. subject to broker laziness
4. no control of quality of data entered by brokers
5. no broker incentive or rules to maintain regular updates other than system warning and lockout after certain number of days
etc..
I can't begin to tell you the crappiness of listings that brokers maintain. The problem is the broker doesnt seem to care. Why would they? We need to take control OUT of the brokers and put more responsibility into the employing brokerage firms that they work with. The corcorans, ellimans, halstead/bhs, of the world actually DO want to clean up the system and build a better system. I know this from my efforts to get a better system designed. But I would not expect many to believe this.
Posted by spinnaker
Thu May 13th, 2010 03:32 PM
I like the idea but skeptical anyone besides us recognizes the value. How does your new system handle private sales between two parties, say a neighbor buys a unit to combine, or someone does a FSBO?
Posted by Noah
Thu May 13th, 2010 08:10 PM
spinnaker - it shows up in real time ACRIS sales data, but not in inventory trends. The system will not catch FSBO's...and honestly, I doubt that will make any meaningful dent in the value. How many residential deals are for sale by owner? How do you track those? How do you verify the data is accurate if the owner is the one creating the advertisement on NY Times? The system catches only broker shared listings in Manhattan and all public record sales.
I hear the concern, but out of all the sales in Manhattan residential, what % do you think are FSBO? 3%? more? less? Can we even quantify it? If there are by average 9,000 sales a year, will 270 listings or so make or break an analytics platform that measures market activity?
Posted by sandy mattingly
Fri May 14th, 2010 04:39 PM
Too many headwinds on this, my friend. The Real Estate Industrial Complex does NOT put such a value on transparency. Indeed, one can say that the Really Big Boys in REBNY prefer the current fog.
I can appreciate that a developer needs to see where the first tranche sells before pricing "the shadow". They may not even consider selling those to an unsolicited bidder until they get some market reaction to the initial marketing. In that (unusual?) case, they really are not yet "available for sale".
On the other hand, I was in a 'mature' new development recently where the sales person said she could not show us an availability sheet because "that is proprietary information" BUT she would show us anything that hasn't sold yet (and, presumably, give us a price on anything we were interested in). Secrets, secrets...
I'd be satisfied if all new developments were co-brokered and if the On Market, In Contract and Sold dates were timely and accurate. You're not going to get any more than that.
But keep up the good fight.
Posted by anonymous
Sat May 15th, 2010 08:32 AM
Noah, without the problems you noted, the system you are developing would have no competitive advantage. Therefore, instead of ranting about it, you should say, "thank you!" Good luck!
Posted by Noah
Sat May 15th, 2010 09:15 AM
Sandy - thats the thing, I agree with you 100%. My issue is that no RECORD is created for unreleased units, not that they are hiding or keeping unreleased units off market.
The developer has every right to keep units off market, see how initial reaction is, adjust prices later as they see fit, or not sell all units. In my proposal, nothing will change for the developer in this regard.
The only thing that changes is that in the ROLEX process, for homegamers that is the internal broker sharing system, the developer only needs to create that initial record, and then they can place 80%, or 70% or whatever % of inventory into a FUTURE status.
A FUTURE status would not be shared with streeteasy's or nytimes, and would NOT be on market. The advantage of this is that we can at least measure where the inventory is, even though it is NOT on market. The way it is now, developers simply do not create records at all.
So, take 101 Warren Street..I dug through tons of units here that were never released, and no record created. Then all of a sudden, around April 2008 right before all listings started to close, they uploaded ALL their unreleased units that were in reality signed into contract 12-24 months prior. There was no ACTIVE or FUTURE or OFF MKT state prior to this. The first history was CONTRACT SIGNED. So from non existent, to CONTRACT SIGNED. The result was no measurement in off market or active inventory, and a huge surge in pending sales in early 2008 when in reality these guys were signed 12-24 months prior.
Doing it my way, at least we would see inventory swell in mid 2006 in the OFF MKT category, then see the shift to ACTIVE before the listing enters contract. We can see the movement of this inventory. As it is today, we cannot and the flaws ruin otherwise good existing resale measurements.
Thanks as always for your thoughts
Posted by Noah
Sat May 15th, 2010 09:22 AM
anon - The new dev problem is one of the problems that we couldnt do much about, because the data was either not there or big time delayed in timing. In this regard, Id like that issue fixed.
Considering all the other things we had to do to get the data flaws scrubbed and the data standardized properly and the flow algo implemented properly, etc..Im not too concerned about losing any competitive advantage. It was an extremely challenging project regardless of the new dev issue. With the new dev issue fixed, you guys will have that much more accurate analytics from which to track and measure the market. Its fine now, except the way it is today if there was a new dev boom happening, my platform would not catch it because we removed the source of the poison.
In the end, Im highly confident we would still be the best platform out there with little threat of any near term competition to give users the most timely and most accurate means to measure Manhattan markets. I just would rather have ALL the data.
Posted by change_agent
Tue May 18th, 2010 08:41 PM
Great dialogue Noah. Thank you.
It's almost a misnomer at this point -"transparency." It is overused now and thrown out in the media - if you say it, you do it - NOT. It really is about ACCURACY for me. That's all. Accessible, accurate, flushed/scrubbed, apartment information funneled into one broker database. And your point on new developments aka shadow inventory is a damn good angle to add to the argument.
What do you think of JumpPost.com?
Posted by Mike
Mon Sep 20th, 2010 11:50 AM
It's really a combination of arrogance and ignorance. The brokers of the past never wanted a system that could be figured out because they didn't want each other to know what they were really doing (or not doing based upon their claims).
Now that the technology cat is out of the bag, the brokers still want to keep transparency away from the public and outside brokers (those nasty bridge and tunnel people).
Many of the agents in Manhattan have been brought up in this culture, have drank the kool-aid and truly believe that "NYC is different" "MLS won't work here" and "Competition is bad".
Well, it works everywhere else in the country and WILL work here, once the entrenched allow it to.
Thanks for doing your part, Noah!
Posted by Noah
Mon Sep 20th, 2010 04:11 PM
Hey Mike, thanks for the comment. We have a MLS type sharing system, just not a true MLS that the outsiders are used to. Ours is not enforced well and therefore data integrity breaches are common and largely go unpenalized. As a result, brokers tend to not update listings. In addition, many top producing brokers just dont update when an active listing goes to contract; not all, but many. Those that see the benefit in it for everyone, go out of their way to update listings immediately. Those that see the benefit only for themselves, will do what they want that furthers business or perception of how busy one is. Its funny, because when a top producer that did this called a colleague next to me a few years ago that had a stale listing, they let him have it. Then I found out later this broker did it all the time. So, its fine for them, but if others do it how dare they waste their time or tease their client into thinking it was available.
Very annoying. We need enforcement and a better core structure for processing shared listings. We need penalties and the concern that if you dont update or respect data integrity, you will pay a fine for it.
Posted by JuiceMan
Mon Sep 20th, 2010 05:06 PM
Digs,
Understand the issue but isn't it better to separate new dev data from resale anyway? Two different animals from a buyer perspective and IMO independent from a market perspective. Cleansing resale data of the new dev noise is a vast improvement over what we are looking at today. Lumping new development activity into different buckets could actually turn out to be a good long term strategy for your platform.
JuiceMan
Posted by Noah
Mon Sep 20th, 2010 05:32 PM
Hey Juice! Yes I agree we should, but this is a slightly different problem. We actually do not separate at, at least for now. The only Price Action charts we will show is median monthly sales (w/MA) based on ACRIS and that certainly is both spikey and affected by the new dev boom that saw tons of disproportionately higher PPSF from existing resale.
Rather, the reason I mention this is because the new tracking platform we will launch is mostly an inventory tracking mechanism, following manhattan inventory as REBNY broker's listings move from one listing state to another. For this type of system to gauge the market, the #1 icritical piece of information is that there is an existing LISTING RECORD created for each unit that hits market. After that, the important things are proper status updates, proper listing info, proper contract date, etc..so we can measure not only the movement of inventory, but things like absorption rate, days on market, cum. days on market, etc.. to measure market relative strength. Sometimes this type of accurate, sensitive tracking information is more important than lagging sales price action. I dont see how you can ever get a accurate real time price platform, to tell us where bids all over the market are comng in. That will be anectdotal. But with this system, you will see the demand and the supply waves clearly. And for submarkets.
We get the sale info from ACRIS and then have to worry about syncing it up to the associated listing. I cant tell you what a nightmare job that was - SE actually did QUITE a great job doing this on their site.
Anyway, you will see soon enough. Again, sorry all for this delay.
Posted by lalaland
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 08:35 AM
The Manhattan market has been moving in precisely that direction for years now, so that's in your favor. The real issue is changing the model from one that is set up to benefit the broker to one that benefits the client. Rebny, streeteasy, etc. are all trying to fill the void that not having a real MLS ensures.
I remember vividly how much of a joke Rolex was when it came to figuring out what was live and what was spoken for: it was almost like craigslist where the only listings you trust are the new ones; anything older than a couple of weeks was too shaky to waste time on.
It will come together for Manhattan in another 5 years or so I think - the larger players will have to make concessions to smaller players though, since it's the smaller guys who are holding things up generally (the big guys argue about the fairness of a new system, the little guys want no system at all). I'd also wager the softer spots (in sales) are the best times to strike, since that's when the little guys have the most to lose.
(btw here's my logic: a self-employed broker gets maybe 1 listing a month; if they cobroke it every time they get 1/2 the potential income. ANY MLS system would increase the likelyhood of mandatory cobrokes (like rebny) so the little guys, dependent on making 100% on each listing fights to stay independent. Similarly a developer wants to create false demand by hiding how many units and when he will release them; otherwise buyers might 'extend and pretend' while they wait for a better deal on upcoming units (i.e. realize that they can control the pricing by never buying the first release or something). A major player works in volume, and wants access to as many listings/data as possible to create cobroking opportunities for as many agents as they can sustain. The two models are at odds with each other, but the major players have cornered so much market share they are winning 'eyeballs' to such a degree the little guys are forced to get on board to find clients)
The bad news is that's only Manhattan. Brooklyn, I can assure you, is still a totally fragmented nightmare from an MLS point of view.
Posted by Noah
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 09:12 AM
I completely agree with you lalaland about Bklyn. Totally fragmented, and a decade behind. Tons of firms simply dont co-broke so buyers seeking independent representation, have to pay for it out of their own pockets. I only did 4 Bklyn deals, and none recently, so lucky for me my world is Manhattan.
Yes, Manhattan has been on right track for about 4 years or so now..ever since SE came and solved the aggregation problem for the consumer. Its ironic because our industry now feels a 'lost opportunity' having let SE even get to where they are.
Its crazy, because the industry did NOT want to go this direction at first. Everyones data was their data and nobody elses, WHA WHA WHA, cry me a river - get me a direct deal in the first week. To fully service the seller, a broker has to share data. So, they send cease & desist letters to SE to take their data OFF the site. SE resisted, it was public domain. Within a year or so, the industry realized something. The consumers were flocking to the site that made this market more transparent. It didnt take long for the corcorans and ellimans to see that SE was sending tons of traffic to their websites and after a while, sellers started to demand that listings go on SE. So, guess what. The industry started to send their own private data feeds (forget ROLEX), their own proprietary data feeds for all their agents listings, info and status updates to SE directly! They figure the seller demands it, the buyers start there and finish at their property, why not make the data accurate. What started out as cease & desist, ended with free private data feeds provided. That is proof enough of an industry that was backwards at first, and finally saw the light.
On to your other statement: "The real issue is changing the model from one that is set up to benefit the broker to one that benefits the client."
Outside of the listing histories, inventory search, and ACRIS data on SE, most innovation was done as you say, to the benefit of the broker. Thats where the money is. Whether its a new vendor or a new marketing product, or a new way to email the industry to market a property, or a new way to get the broker more publicity or their own in-house blog, etc..Or a new in house application for agents to connect to ROLEX. The trust issue for updated listings is still a problem, and one that we had to build specific rules for so as not to poison the good stuff, that was being updated. The problem lies in lack of enforcement of data integrity breaches. The solution is to fine offenders, and to build a new backend system that identifies these stale masses and not only informs the agent, but the firm itself. Both should be responsible. If the agent violates data integrity rules, issue a fine. If the violation is not resolved or fine is not paid, fine the firm. The system can be setup better to not only identify these breaches, but to keep all REBNY firms in the loop as to how bad their agents are and what needs to be done to clean it up. As it is now, brokers and firms let it go and nobody knows who has to update what; not that anything might be done about it. A mega producer very recently told me they dont update listings to CSGN, because no top producers do it and it creates a better advantage to them. ARGHHHHHHH! Ok, so mega producers can compromise the system further to help their own agenda. This is the problem. Brokers do what they want, without enforcement of penalty.
But my ideas are just a start. Locking out the agent, better red flag mechanisms, and updating the entire core structure of ROLEX system itself I believe is necessary. I know how ROLEX is designed, and it can be improved, starting with the core db setup and sharing network.
As for this: "ANY MLS system would increase the likelyhood of mandatory cobrokes (like rebny) so the little guys, dependent on making 100% on each listing fights to stay independent." Very true. But if its the little guys goal to stay independant so they do not have to co-broke and can keep a full commission for their agents and house kitty, you'll get no sympathy from me. This is why Bklyn is so fragmented. But in this day age, saying a broker gets 1/2 the potential income is usually not accurate. Rarely do I see full 6% direct deals anymore. Im sure some do, but not like they did in past years. Most listing agreements are tiered these days and competition/market changes are the reasons. Also, over the course of the deal negotiations to bridge a gap to get a deal done, are common. If you wont take a discount on a direct deal, someone else from another big firm likely will. Which brings us to how important is one brokers services/marketing/selling strategies over anothers? Big? Oh yes. But some sellers who have a product not worth what they thought it was or used to be, may not care and shoot for the plain vanilla big firm services that offer a better cost structure in the end for them. Over 1M, direct deals are closer to 4%-5%. So, the potential loss is less than half the full commission.
Just to be clear, the issue I raise here is specifically to newly approved development projects hitting the REBNY sharing system and Manhattan marketplace. It is these guys that SHOULD create an initial listing record for all inventory, all units off the bat. After that, if the developer wants to move 80% of inventory to a status of FUTURE or OFF MKT, so be it. But at least the units can be measured. As it is now, they are not and only later updated as a batch of pending sales some 12-18 months after deals were actually signed. Big problem and one that puts into question ALL MARKET DATA from 2005-2007 where there was a new dev boom. We had to remove that poison.
Posted by lalaland
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 12:48 PM
why can't the total units data be scraped off a new building permit?
Posted by Noah
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 04:16 PM
we can scrape the TOTAL UNITS data off the bldg information we have. However, we dont have the right to put all units ACTIVE on market. Thats the developers call. That also doesnt solve the 'contract date' problem. What happened was sales teams not only did not create a record for inventory that sold, but they never updated when the contract was signed.. Instead, they did batch uploads of 50-60+ deals that were signed many many months prior. I found this out when investigated 2 BIG HUMPS in pending sales that did not match up properly with ACRIS sales feed. Pending should lead acris sales, with an extended lag representing new dev boom.
Instead, it lagged it. The reason was tons of contracts that were signed mid 2006 - early 2007 for new dev units, never even had the units on market and only first appeared in system in very late 2007 or early 2008. They appeared with the status of CSGN. So I investigated these 1000s of poisonous units and check ARIS image documents and confirmed that the CONTRACT DATE was in fact around 12-18 months earlier. Useless data. Ruining otherwise good data.
So what we did was this: ANY NEW DEV UNIT WHOSE FIRST HISTORY RECORD IS CONTRACT SIGNED, WAS REMOVED. ALL NEW DEV DATA THAT WE HAD A PRIOR ACTIVE HISTORY FOR, REMAINED. Best we can do with what was available. My idea proposed would have solved this problem. All inventory would be recorded right away and measured, even if it means the developer choosing, as is their right, to move 80% of units OFF MKT for future release.
Posted by Noah
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 04:56 PM
"Pending should lead acris sales, with an extended lag representing new dev boom."
oops..meant with an 'extended lead representing new dev boom'...signed deals some 12-24 months prior to recorded closing
Posted by lalaland
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 07:39 PM
Gotcha - I fear your improvement relies on doing what's good for everyone, instead of the individual, and man, that line of thinking is not quite in vogue these days, never mind when things are cranking.
It may have changed since I left the city for beautiful brooklyn (about 3 years ago) but I would wager Rolex is 80% of the problem. It has a terrible structure (logging into their secure server rather logging into a site? insane). It's slow, it's cranky, and it's so clogged with exactly the kind of listings you are complaining about that should have been removed ages ago. It felt like something an IBM engineer would have come up with in 1993...
I recommend stripping the agent's/office's name from the listing once it's expired. You can color-code it to show it's aged, but pull out the contact info. This would show it's still a live listing technically but would remove the incentive to let it hang there indefinitely. As it stands people just contact the agent to see if it's still live which is a nice setup for a bait&switch.
Anyway, looking forward to the updated stats/site you previewed a while back, and it's amazing how long the entrenched interests can block progress that would benefit them as much as anyone else, huh? Crabs in a bucket...
Posted by Carmen Brodeur
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 08:05 PM
Great overall analysis of the system and inherent problems. We have similar problems in our system in Arizona. I also wish listings were updated more by the respective brokers.
Posted by Noah
Tue Sep 21st, 2010 08:05 PM
I think a web based access system is in works, but dont quote me on that one.
Also keep in mind, the tools we will offer will not show individual listing addresses or units - only our ACRIS sales section will show that.
Rather the tools will be all derived analytics from this raw data, and that is what this site hopes to be. The tracking mechanism of Manhattan inventory as it moves from one state to another. The innovation is in the flow algo that governs our data and scrubbing of data through a grueling mining process to uncover all embedded flaws. Only states a listing can be in: active, off mkt, cont signed, sold and closed. Rolex covers first 3, acris the last. No one listing can occupy more than one state at any given time. No more mis counting trends. Now, things fit and a clear picture of market trends emerges.
It may take a bit to get used to, but the design of it was to ensure that you see the changes in the market as they occur. Thats how we hope to be different. ...Thx, curious as to your thoughts after it goes live!!!
Posted by john
Sat Sep 25th, 2010 07:50 PM
If one is offering a service for a subscription fee, why not buy an offering plan from the developer for a couple hundred bucks in order to get the real data? Everything is filed with the AG anyway. The data is out there. If you're going to be a middle man, you got to get the data from the sources, put it together, and give something organized to the buyer.
Posted by Noah
Sun Sep 26th, 2010 07:19 PM
John, Ive been there. I got 15 OPs and schedule As. How does that help you with where the market is now? Where was it 3 months ago? A year ago? Pending sales trends? Inventory trends? Off market trends? Days on market? Acris sales? UES 2BTH 1-2m market? Lower manhattan <1m market? Etc.?
The OPs will be useful for phase 2 of this Urbandigs project. But that only starts well after this first phase launches and lets you track movement of manhattan inventory from one state to another in a high quality way
Posted by Austin Scott Brooks
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 02:45 PM
I have a few apartments for rent in new york
and I try to keep my real estate listings updated regularly but it's easy to forget when real estate is not your primary source of income. I agree, though, the MLS is flawed and should be updated to be more universal.
Posted by urbandigs
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 05:35 PM
Can you tell me what version you are on please? But yes, either way we will look into this now for you..
Posted by urbandigs
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 05:35 PM
my comment is above yours, as it seems your computer clock is few hours ahead
Posted by urbandigs
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 05:46 PM
aparadekto - can you be more specific? What version of OPERA are you using? We tested out the latest version and the site seems to work fine? If you have an older version, can u please update your version and try again? Or, if your on latest version, 10.63, and its still not working, please be specific or send a screenshot to noah, at, urbandigs.com..thx
Posted by urbandigs
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 05:53 PM
aparadekto - can you be more specific? What version of OPERA are you using? We tested out the latest version and the site seems to work fine? If you have an older version, can u please update your version and try again? Or, if your on latest version, 10.63, and its still not working, please be specific or send a screenshot to noah, at, urbandigs.com..thx
Posted by aparadekto
Mon Oct 25th, 2010 06:54 PM
Hey, I can't view your site properly within Opera, I actually hope you look into fixing this.