Euro Owners Can Cancel Out Some Asset Depreciation
A: Some food for thought. Lets look at how a foreigner using Euros to buy Manhattan property, all cash, has fared in the past 2 years.
Two years ago the world was quite different than it is today; and all the stuff in between was a roller coaster ride to say the least. Looking back two years, Manhattan sales prices had not yet fallen off a cliff (pre-Lehman failure), stocks were on their ways to the March 2009 lows, and the Euro was trading near its highs against the dollar.
So, lets see what happened to a foreigner who used Euros (the more local currency used, the higher the effect) to buy a Manhattan pad before the crash and see how the currency moves alone may have canceled out any asset depreciation. Lets use a $1.5m apartment as a hypothetical example, and lets keep this simple - leaving out transaction costs and other purchase expenses that would make this buy-sell more costly.
Euro Investor Closes on $1,500,000 Manhattan apt Purchase May 18th, 2008 (Pre-Lehman)
The Purchase --> It cost this investor E966,744 to buy the $1.5m Manhattan Property (E1 = $1.5516 at the time)
Euro Investor Closes on $1,200,000 Manhattan apt Sale May 18th, 2010
The Manhattan Market Adjusts Lower --> Post-Lehman, the Manhattan market froze up and adjusted lower. Lets assume a depreciation of 20%. The original $1.5m apartment now receives bids topping out at $1.2m
The Sale --> The US Dollar rose substantially against the Euro since the purchase (E1 = $1,2367 today @ 11:06am). The Euro investor sells the Manhattan property for $1,200,000 which now converts to E970,324.
Although it cost this investor only E966,744 to buy the $1.5m property, the recent currency appreciation in dollars offsets the 20% depreciation in the property since the original purchase Pre-Lehman, and a bit more. The euro investor now gets E970,324 back when converting their stronger dollars to their local currency. This example clearly does not include transaction costs to buy or sell, and only goes to show you how dramatic the recent currency moves have been. As discussed earlier this month:
"...the volatile currency moves are resulting in a decline of purchasing power for those foreigners converting Euros to Dollars when closing their transaction. On the flip side, this could make previous Euro investor-owners holding Manhattan property more inclined to sell to take advantage of the currency rise in their dollar based asset - especially if they bought near peak and are expecting to take a loss. The loss in the trade of the asset might be offset by the recent gain in the dollar against their local currency."
Interesting indeed. I really wonder how many Euro investors originally put money to work in Manhattan real estate as a hedge against the decline of their own currency?
UPDATE: Updated the math on the 20% discount in hypothetical example. Sorry, my bad.



Posted by bought@thetop
Tue May 18th, 2010 11:27 AM
Unfortunately, I bought with US$ in 2007, and now I'm just out 20%+
Posted by greek investors suk
Tue May 18th, 2010 11:41 AM
You and me both. What about the Greeks? The thought of a Greek investor using euros to buy Manhattan as their country gets bailed out, and selling today without much of a loss seems a bit frustrating to me. Why do I care? I dont know, but I do. I need a drink
Posted by Amanda B
Tue May 18th, 2010 12:03 PM
Upper East Side condos are what people should be buying as an investment
Posted by Josh
Tue May 18th, 2010 01:03 PM
Interesting observation Noah - I cannot wait to hear the bears....I am sure they will have something to say......
Posted by Panos Ipeirotis
Tue May 18th, 2010 01:13 PM
A 20% depreciation of a $1.5M apt results in a selling price of $1.2M, right?
Posted by anonymous
Tue May 18th, 2010 01:43 PM
@Panos Ipeirotis:
exactly! which makes the euros retrieved by the sale 970k pretty close to the money paid in 2007 without counting closing costs, conversion costs (euro to dollars and back), bank fees, taxes, etc.
hardly a good investment...
Posted by Noah
Tue May 18th, 2010 02:08 PM
oy - yes sorry...rushing to get this up to make appts, just got back..let me adjust!
Posted by Panos Ipeirotis
Tue May 18th, 2010 02:53 PM
You may also want to modify the sentence "The original $1.5m apartment now receives bids topping out at $1.3m"
Posted by Noah
Tue May 18th, 2010 03:07 PM
done. thanks Panos...bad on my part..usually I dont rush these things but today I had to. no excuse, I know. sorry for the error and thanks for pointing it out
Posted by Noah
Tue May 18th, 2010 03:31 PM
anon - true, I mentioned the closing costs and other costs but left out exact numbers to point out the currency trends over the past 2 years for this hypothetical example.
Again, I apologize for the math error in original publishing. Currency trends did cancel out a good portion of an otherwise depreciating asset from a original purchase near the peak of the markets..could have been much worse for investors finding themselves in this type of situation
Posted by what happened?
Tue May 18th, 2010 05:49 PM
Noah, question from your post a week or so agao...what do you think the Europe crisis/bail-out means for Manhattan real estate? Seems like falling Euro is certainly a deflationary sign, correct?
Posted by Fred
Tue May 18th, 2010 06:56 PM
Thanks Noah - Will also be interesting to see if euros don't start monetizing out of NYC. Swig just cut the asking on W. 57th to $1,500 / sf from - gulp - $2,100 / sf. We are sure to see more of this from the middle upper end. How this affects the lower end remains to be seen but I have a hard time seeing pre-wars getting a premium as long as the mid/high is in price cut mode......
Posted by John
Tue May 18th, 2010 07:23 PM
are you sure about the numbers fred? you might want to triple double check them before posting....
Posted by Jewelin
Tue May 18th, 2010 07:29 PM
In a similar vein, I have thought of making a Manhattan RE purchase using yen, as my bet is that the Japanese currency is going to sink against the US mid-to-long term. Any US-based yen lenders out there anyone know about?
Posted by MeekSheep
Tue May 18th, 2010 08:11 PM
That's a good piece but it has one flaw. It assumes that either the person bought all cash or took out a loan in euros. What if they had a loan in dollars? Now they're paying more.
Posted by Fred
Tue May 18th, 2010 08:17 PM
John - google it buddy. don't worry, I hear walk-up studios in hamilton heights will be just fine.....
Posted by Noah
Tue May 18th, 2010 08:50 PM
even if they took out a loan in dollars to buy the dollar based asset, the euro investor will convert the remaining back to euros after closing to their local currency...yes, way less of a conversion though.
the original discussion was in regards to cash euro buyers
Posted by Sechel
Tue May 18th, 2010 09:09 PM
Manhattan Real Estate the money market investment for world investors. At the end of the day, the NYC condo was lower risk than a European investment. A good diversification move for foreigners it seems. Can only imagine how the Asians must feel.
Posted by Homes For Sale Miami Beach
Wed May 19th, 2010 08:48 AM
Fantastic real estate blog post! Pictures are worth thousands of words, it’s nice to see the attention to detail from your end. Thanks
Posted by In Debt We Trust
Wed May 19th, 2010 01:53 PM
While the short EUR trade appears to be increasingly crowded, the unexpected nature of the policy announcements is increasing market
volatility and weighing on sentiment. Momentum does not seem to be fading. This could turn into a repeat of shorting Lehman (or alternately Fannie and Freddie)- sharp vicious short squeezes but where everyone knew the final outcome.
Bloomberg headlines:
19:28 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN ANNOUNCES BANK ON NAKED
SHORTSELLING OF CDS ON EUROZONE GOVERNMENT BONDS
19:31 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS BAN TAKES EFFECT FROM MAY
19 TO MARCH 31, 2011 AND 'WILL BE CLOSELY MONITORED'
19:32 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS BAN ON SHORT-SELLING ALSO
APPLIES TO SHARES OF 10 LEADING FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS
19:33 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS STEP 'DUE TO EXTRAORDINARY
VOLATILITY WITH GOVERNMENT BONDS IN EURO ZONE'
19:35 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS MASSIVE SHORT SELLING
COULD HAVE LED TO EXCESSIVE PRICE MOVEMENTS
19:36 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS MASSIVE SHORT SELLING
COULD HAVE ENDANGERED FINANCIAL SYSTEM STABILITY
19:40 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS SHORT SELLING OF SHARES
BANNED AT AAREAL BANK AG, ALLIANZ SE, COMMERZBANK AG
19:40 18May10 RTRS-GERMANY'S BAFIN SAYS SHORT SELLING OF SHARES
BANNED AT DEUTSCHE BANK AG, DEUTSCHE BOERSE AG, DEUTSCHE POSTBANK AG
19:41 18May10 RTRS-BAFIN SAYS SHORT SELLING OF SHARES ALSO BANNED
AT GENERALI DEUTSCHLAND HOLDING AG, HANNOVER RUECKVERSICHERUNG AG
19:42 18May10 RTRS-BAFIN SAYS SHORT SELLING OF SHARES ALSO BANNED
AT MLP AG AND MUENCHENER RUECKVERSICHERUNGS-GESELLSCHAFT AG
Posted by Eastvillboy
Wed May 19th, 2010 03:34 PM
Thanks for this Post Noah. I've been curious about your thoughts on a declining Euro.
My Bearish sentiments for NYC lie not as much in the RE market as in the Macro economy as a whole. A good exchange for Euros and a positive feeling in the Euro zone have kept Tourists flocking to the city. Many of these are Euros. I know this well as I work on 5th Avenue and see them consulting maps and photographing the Empire State Bldg.
If there is a sudden drop in Consumer Confidence, these Tourists will stop coming and this will bring a MAJOR haircut to Broadway, hotels, restaurants, etc. As it is, there are many vacant commercial retail spaces on 5th ave. Without these Tourists...I only see that number going up.
The Double Whammy for NYC is the vilification of GS and MS. We need these guys (as much as we hate them).
Not to mention, threat of Terrorism as recently re-awakened by attempt at Times Sq.
EVB
Posted by John
Thu May 20th, 2010 12:51 PM
I am sure they are, fred - since you refer to those walk up studios so many times in your posts, you must have vast knowledge of them....
Posted by Mbt
Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 10:37 PM
I think another reason fees are not being paid and free months not offered is that prices have come down. Apartments are moving but part of the reason is that prices came down to a point at which they will move.
Posted by coach handbags
Fri Aug 13th, 2010 04:20 AM
So, lets see what happened to a foreigner who used Euros (the more local currency used, the higher the effect) to buy a Manhattan pad before the crash and see how the currency moves alone may have canceled out any asset depreciation. Lets use a $1.5m apartment as a hypothetical example, and lets keep this simple - leaving out transaction costs and other purchase expenses that would make this buy-sell more costly.