A revolution or Non-Event? Breaking Down The VOW!
It’s been touted as a consumer-empowering trend, a revolution, a win for buyers and a loss for agents … VOWs – Virtual Office Websites.
It all started with a lawsuit in which the Department of Justice sued the National Association of Realtors in 2005 for additional transparency in property listings on IDX (a data-sharing listing service). The settlement in 2008 was intended to make it a playing field for internet-based brokerages as they compete with traditional firms.
Now, the big hooplah comes from the media as it looks to large NYC brokerages who are adopting VOWS and allowing other brokers’ listings to be listed on their sites, with Halstead being the first. Basically, buyers can now see listings from Corcoran, Elliman, etc. on the Halstead site. Other firms are also jumping on this bandwagon, all under the same banner of this being the wave of the future.
Some are calling it a revolution, and big win for the little guy in the age of the Internet. Crain’s has picked up this story several times (here and here) with such attention grabbing headlines like “Brokers lose grip on their listings”.
Did I miss something? Have we not had Streeteasy and Property Shark? If I were to break down buyer’s behavior, I would say that any do-it-yourself or research-driven buyer out there will go straight to Streeteasy to do their research. Why go anywhere else? It’s as if the current dilemma has been the necessity of having to go to each and every brokerage firm’s site to conduct property due diligence; that’s not the case. Further, unlike SE or PS, VOWs adopted by the big brokerages will require a user to register in order to view the listings, an extra step in an otherwise straightforward process.
[Disclaimer: I’ve always had a bit of a philosophical problem with brokerage firms touting a huge online prowess and fancy features; those bells and whistles are supposedly targeting those do-it-yourselfers, those buyers who have chosen not to engage buy-side representation (all of 5% or so, in my experience). It’s meant as a pitch to sellers for exclusivity and touted as a differentiator in the race to attract as many eyeballs as possible. I guess I’ve never bought into it, as I feel that those 5-10% of buyers are aware of Streeteasy and PS already.]
The more fruitful idea, if we’re talking about market-leveling efforts, would be to create a true competitor to Streeteasy, with additional value-add features, rather than to transform each brokerage firm into a Streeteasy derivative. … ‘Just a thought.
I’d love to hear from the UD community on this topic:
• For those do-it-yourself buyers, where do you go online to dig?
• How often to do you visit the big brokerage websites? In which instances?
• How significant do you think VOWs will be in the NYC market?
• Sellers, how important is your chosen firm’s online capabilities to you and why?
Posted by Noah
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 12:13 PM
Interesting Ana Maria, I wonder how the brokers out there will respond to this.
First off, REBNY made an attempt to compete with Streeteasy and it doesn't seem to be making much of an impact - and the brokers are paying for it in their dues!
Its called ResidentialNYC and is powered by TRULIA engine:
http://residentialnyc.com/
Second, the goal of the VOW in my opinion is for the brokerage firm to keep all eyeballs and potential customers ON their site which increases the chance of the user (aka, the buyer or seller) using one of the firms agents in a future transaction. Makes sense. Not sure what the real benefit is to the independent agent. As you say, a loss for the agent.
To me, this is just another innovation that think misses the target when it comes to solving a problem and making the markets more transparent and efficient. How does this help the buyers? brokers get buyer analytics, so they can analyze what buyers to focus on and who are most serious I guess. But it has to be used alot for that to be useful.
So now we will have 100s of mini streeteasy's and OLR's out there, all in an attempt to be the place to be to find listings. Sounds to me like the buyers will be outright confused and won't play along. But that is just me. Ive been wrong before.
Id rather focus on innovation that is targeted to the consumer directly. That adds to transparency. That empowers. Not sure this does that? Anybody agree or disagree???
Posted by Thisson
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 12:18 PM
I go to the main pages (e.g. Corcoran, Prudential Douglas Elliman) all the time to browse listings in different neighborhoods and to get general pricing information. Most people with a *casual* interest in research do the same.
Until we are ready to actually make an offer, we are not going to hit PropertyShark and SE to figure out what the seller likely paid on their original purchase, etc.
I view those pages (PropertyShark and SE) as catering more to the "pros" and I think the other pages are more interesting to Johnny and Jane Retail.
Posted by Ana Maria
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 12:22 PM
Noah - we seem to share the same perspective (not a surprise really)
Thisson, interesting feedback. So you don't use SE for browsing, it seems, but more for number crunching, so to speak.
How important are the respective features of the brokerage websites to you? and how much will having competitors' listings on the site make a difference in your browsing experience?
Posted by Nelbee
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:09 PM
Our company will be addressing these very problems. We should speak before our launch.
Posted by Nelbee
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:11 PM
Our company will be addressing these very problems. We should speak before our launch.
Posted by Jay
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:15 PM
I mainly use SE. I only use the broker sites to get a better look at pictures, full descriptions, etc.
What would make the market better is to pull commissions out of sale prices. Sale prices should be listed sans commission, sellers should pay the selling broker (if any) and buyers should pay the buyers broker (if any). The current way obfuscates what is going on.
Posted by Noah
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 01:20 PM
nelbee - lets talk! you know where to find me...email in ABOUT section!
good luck!
Posted by Isabel
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 07:05 PM
Ana, I get SE updates on my saved sales and searches daily. I also check PS as soon as a new listing that I might be interested in hits SE. PS is extremely helpful, I can see violations, legal status, etc. I don´t use broker websites at all, since in my experience all that is selling that is not FSBO end up in SE. I am not interested in a buyer´s broker. I rather have one less person in the process, since I am not looking for a coop. I´ve been looking for over a year now, and I am happy waiting for the right opportunity.
Posted by Stephanie Davis
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 08:16 PM
It is interesting though that to use the "VOW" system with Halstead you must register and give your name and email, and then you have access.
Posted by Les
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 09:02 PM
I am a semi-pro (property management on the commercial side). I am a do-it-myselfer mostly because I am in the exploration mode and I like doing the research. When I have narrowed the field, I will contact one of the residential brokers I have met through the years. If the seller is willing to pay for someone to do my prep work, I might as well let him.
I have been using Streeteasy for this "poking around", although I do often click through to the broker's page for a listed property. I use Streeteasy because I do not want to be contacted by the listing broker, and many sites require registration. I have enough Email. And it seems unfair to use someone's time to respond to my preliminary browsing.
In my case, the VOW's do not seem to offer me anything of value. However, I suspect that there are a lot of people, like me, who will do some looking around on the Internet before actually contacting a broker. I believe a well marketed VOW with some value added content could attract a significant number of these "lookers". Of course, the problem with this client set is that they are often not yet commited to buying anything.
Just my two cents.
Thanx for the blog!
Posted by Stephane
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 10:32 PM
Redfin for NY. Best iPhone app so far. Beat feature is that you can snap drive by pics and notes that sync with your web account.
Posted by Phil
Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 10:51 PM
I have been reading your blog for a while and really enjoy it. Thanks for all the great insight.
We are taking our time and waiting for the right place in Brooklyn. I used to use the NY Times real estate site. If I want to search on places with a garage I still use it. Not many other engines have that option.
When NYT upgraded their system about 8 months ago there were some glitches and I started using SE. On SE I use advanced search on new listings (by date or price). I also like to advanced search on price adjustments in the last week. It is also interesting to see how many places are for sale in Brooklyn overall and how that number is changing over time. SE only gives the current number of properties for sale but I kind of track it over time. I know it is not exact because of listings in contract (which can also be searched) but it gives a rough idea.
If I see something interesting I will hit the brokers site for better pics and will probably hit Google maps to get a better feel for the positioning of the house on the street and the look of the street in general. SE tries to make this easy, as does NYT, but it works less well from their site than on Google Maps.
If all is well I will hit PS.
Posted by Lor
Wed Feb 24th, 2010 06:10 AM
I also get daily updates on my saved sales and searches from SE. I check PS regularly and only go to brokerage websites if I am bored and have not seen any new listings of interest on SE for awhile.
I wouldn't think VOWs would have much of an impact as there are already better tools out there -- they would need to add some sort of new feature to make it worth a check.
Also, I will not use a buyers broker as I was unimpressed in the past -- comments emailed to me by a broker in 2008 post-Lehman such as "the world is falling apart but New York real estate keeps on ticking away"....were a nail in the coffin.
Posted by Ana Maria
Wed Feb 24th, 2010 09:07 AM
Very interesting input, everyone. Thanks! I'm hearing that the consensus is (broadly) to use SE and PS for digging in on numbers, use brokerage sites for better pictures and descriptions.
I'm also hearing that these tools are used primarily in lieu of using a buyer's broker (i.e. not to augment an agent relationship). At least based on the super small sample size in this discussion.
Indeed, it underlines my thinking that additional functionality and value are needed to make VOWs more than just mini-Streeteasys (particularly if you need to register to see all the listings).
Posted by Keith Burkhardt
Wed Feb 24th, 2010 10:53 AM
I like to utilize new tech when it adds something useful. I was hoping to read this and somehow be convinced about the value of VOW's.
I use Twitter but frankly can't say it adds much value to what I do, but I "tweet" because its free and easy; so why not? For the rest of the country you have Trulia, Zillow and Realtor.com, here we have PS, SE and NYT's online. What is the purpose of a VOW? It seems very few people even know what they are...
Posted by truthskr10
Wed Feb 24th, 2010 02:06 PM
Streeteasy all the way. If the NYT were half smart, and they are not, they would buy streeteasy.
The NYT RE section used to be decent until they made it less friendly. You had to click on links to get any pic, and clicking on any link seemed to ruin your search, having to start a new one.
It's actually what made me more googlish, and subsequently helped me find streeteasy.
If a listing is interesting, I will continue on to the broker website link to get better pics,more info,etc.
Then on to acris to get the greater details, prior sale, mortgage amount,etc.
And then if feeling extra snoopy, google the owners name(s) and see if there is a situation forcing the sale, corporate move, bankruptcy, divorce,etc that may be precipitating the sale.
Posted by Vladimir Ichkov
Sun Mar 14th, 2010 11:51 PM
I am a real estate agent and what I understood so far from this discussion is that the people who are doing their research on their own and don't want to use a buyer's broker typically use SE and PS. That's why I think that VOWs might be helpful to small brokerages and the rest of the guys looking to buy who are basically contacting an agent based on the ad they post on their own websites.
Posted by Sharon
Thu Mar 18th, 2010 09:28 AM
I'm a broker and have acted as both buyer's and seller's broker. I will ad a VOW to my website eventually, but I recognize that it will primarily help me and my agents track a customer's interests, which will help us help the buyers. But what people who don't want to have a buyer's broker are missing is that--except when they buy a FSBO--they are at a disadvantage if the seller is represented and they are not. And even with the purchase of a for-sale-by-owner, a buyer's broker can help navigate the wild world of NY real estate (including price negotiations, mortgages, and--don't forget--board packages.) There is a lot more to buying a co-op or condo than just negotiating a deal, and that's where a buyer's broker can be a real help. The VOWS will all be fed by the same database as SE and PS, so they will all have the same info basically. To have it on your website means one-stop-shopping for the customer.
Posted by Marilyn Harra Kaye
Sun Mar 21st, 2010 05:09 PM
RE VOW: I own a real estate firm in Manhattab and WOW which means virtual on-line web is the new term used from the justice litigation however IDX is the first VOW & covers over one million Realtors around the world and it has been in place for almost 10 years and we at MLBKaye International Realty are a member thru BMAR/NAR a Manhattan Board with NAR. The VOW in Manhattan is not progressing because of the high audit fees.You need small and large companeys to participate and the small ones have a much higher cost & higher proportionate burden and have not joined. . At NAR IDX/VOW comes with your membership free unless you want an enhanced site. Actually the smaller firms together might have more listings but is difficult to ascertain as many do no belong to Boards as they can not afford it..Manhattan is complicated and more expensive and we at MLBKaye International Realty & LBKaye International Commercial Realty feel you need to belong to two Boards at least to own a company in Manhattan.. At MLBKaye we belong to two Boards and one luxury group:,NAR/BMAR, REBNY & Luxury Real Estate.com. It does costs more to be a broker in Manhattan but with the diverse marketplace it is necessary to cover national, local and high end markets and the rest falls into place...that is why they say "Manhattan is Differentm" and I truly believe it is so. Marilyn Ha3ra Kaye, President, MLBKaye International Realty
Posted by coach handbags
Thu Aug 12th, 2010 09:55 PM
It all started with a lawsuit in which the Department of Justice sued the National Association of Realtors in 2005 for additional transparency in property listings on IDX (a data-sharing listing service). The settlement in 2008 was intended to make it a playing field for internet-based brokerages as they compete with traditional firms.