Valuing Manhattan Real Estate
A: I often get asked how I approach my consulting for my buyer clients. I take it a bit differently than most brokers and like to take on the challenge of 'valuation/bidding strategy' over procurement of property - I find most of my buyers use me to find out what is really going on out there and where a particular product should trade if they are interested in bidding. Given the great strides in overcoming the lack of a MLS system here in Manhattan, consumers can now easily find the bulk of our inventory on their own using sites like Streeteasy.com or NYTimes.com. The Manhattan real estate market is a different animal than most markets outside our crazy little island here. It happens to be a very fast paced market with lots of variables affecting property value and a very diversified buyer pool. Because of the many variables that affect price, every broker has their own unique way of valuing Manhattan real estate. Here is my method.
First, you have to have an idea of where this market is trading right NOW as opposed to say 6-months ago. Keeping a mental history of where bids seem to be coming in as time goes on turns into a gut instinct on where the market seems to be today compared to say 3 months, 6 months, or 12 months ago. Believe it or not, most brokers I have dealt with seem to be behind the curve when it comes to what the markets are doing today. Its not their fault, its just that they focus more on conducting their business and servicing their clients than to have a macro and trading perspective on our marketplace; that is perfectly fine! For example, in mid 2008 a member of a top producing Elliman team once told me...'why would my client sell at a price that is below what he paid for it mid 2007, that wouldn't be smart of him?'. My client, who was a wall street veteran looked at me and gave me that familiar nod - as if to say, 'whatever, let your seller sit and wait for his price then'. The broker had no clue what was going on in the macro environment, wall street, the banking system, etc.. and probably could care less about anything other than conducting his business. You can't blame him for that, although the seller may have wanted to know what was likely brewing under the surface and advised accordingly.
Anyway, having an idea of where real time trades are occurring from peak levels is absolutely vital to consultations with my buyer clients. For me, its a constant challenge that I look forward to; I actually enjoy it! Knowing where you are in the grand scheme of things gives your clients a leg up to be ahead of the curve, not behind it.
Before you go further, it is important that I disclose that I look at when a contract has been signed and NOT when a listing closes. Its more important to me to see where the deal occurred when that contract was fully executed - closing may occur up to 2+ months later. The reasoning here is if you have a deal that was signed in AUG of 2008 yet closed in NOV 2008, analyzing based off the closing date may be misleading as this deal was signed BEFORE our market froze up in mid-September from Lehman's failure. So look at when the deal was signed, not closed, to determine how much down from peak the property should trade at! Thats another thing, this market has experienced a wave down in prices and understanding where your price point is trading down from peak, is kind of important!
Understanding that no formula is perfect and at any time a 'perfect' buyer may pop up with unlimited funds to bid with, here are the 3 main elements (changes in market conditions, renovation adjustments, light/view adjustments) that I focus on for valuating real estate in Manhattan:
1. MARKET CONDITIONS PREMIUM/DISCOUNT - How has the market changed today compared to past comparable sales and how does this affect valuation for a product my client wants to bid on? If you are bidding on APT 10A, chances are you will not have the luxury of a 9A sale a week ago to compare to. So, you must adjust and if you do, you must know what you are adjusting to.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't only look at the most recent sale to find a unit to use as a comparable for my analysis. Instead, I also like to find a SAME LINE sale or SAME ROOM sale that traded near peak to analyze and do a time adjustment. Some brokers will only look at sales in the past 4-6 months, not me. I have no problem looking at a very similar sale that traded near peak (say mid 2007) and then do an adjustment based on where this price point is trading down from peak today.
Since smaller units tend to trade at lower premiums than larger units, I like to compare apples to apples; for example, if a studio and 1BR were the last sales in the building and I need to analyze a Classic-6, Id rather go back a year or two and find a same line or another Classic-6 to use instead. I will just adjust for market conditions myself.
Breaking down by price point, I use the model range of discounts that I often quote here on UrbanDigs to consult for my clients. While finding a very recent same line sale is extremely useful, its usually not available to me. Lately I have been finding that deals signed before Lehman, say between MAR-AUG of 2008, were trading about 3-5% or so off of peak levels - it was only after Lehman that our market froze up and experienced that sharp move down.
I'll repeat the ranges based on price point that I currently use, now that Armageddon has seemed to be priced out of our market:
HIGH END ($5M+) - down aprox 25% - 40% from peak
HIGH/MIDDLE ($2M - $5M) - down aprox 25% - 30% from peak
MID END ($1M - $2M) - down aprox 20% to 30% from peak
LOWER END (Under $1M) - down aprox 15% - 25% from peak
**While in the fear months, trades were occurring closer to the higher end of the above noted ranges, today it seems trades are occurring closer to the lower/middle end of these ranges. The markets way of pricing out fear.
2. RENOVATION PREMIUM/DISCOUNT - You cant just assume that every apartment is in the same condition. So, we need to determine the quality of the comparable sale and how that compares to the unit we are analyzing. In general, anything in the internal system listed at FAIR, GOOD, or EXCELLENT probably needs updating - with FAIR likely being a gut renovation needed. Only if it says MINT or NEW do I assume that the place was in fully renovated condition - pictures play a nice role here if they are available. I often find myself browsing streeteasy.com to go back and check for myself the condition of the kitchens, bathrooms, floors, etc.. of units I determine useful for a comparable analysis. Since you cant just visit a past sold comparable that you are using, this is the next best thing.
Many people have different needs when it comes to renovations. Some buyers have no problem spending the bare minimum for a renovation, while others absolutely must have a kitchen that costs over $60,000 to update with high quality everything. For this analysis, you can't just make up numbers willingly to rationalize the property trading at a lower level. Instead, try to figure out how much money is needed to make the property in question comparable to a past sale worth analyzing.
3. LIGHT/VIEW PREMIUM/DISCOUNT (Per Floor Adjustment) - Tricky, and more art associated with this one. You must give a premium or a discount based on what floor the comparable being used was on in your analysis. If you are about to bid on 3A and you see that 22A sold a year ago, well then you have some adjustments to make.
The general rule of thumb that I use is about 10K-15K or so per floor for existing resales, but it gets a bit tricky because you need to use some art and the quality of the light/view for in this aspect of the valuation. You see, sometimes charming treetop views on the 3rd floor can be just as popular as open city views on the 10th floor that look over the mechanicals of neighboring rooftops - in which case a 105K premium for the 10th floor may not be warranted. Other times, the difference between the 6th floor and the 10th floor is the difference between looking at a building's rear fifteen feet away and having open city views. In this case, a 40K premium for the 10th floor may not be enough.
So you need to use some art here and figure out just how different is the light/view from one comparable to another. The bigger the difference, the higher the multiplier you should use. In Manhattan, buyers pay for flooded sunshine and park/river/city views. I would use a lower formula to compare the 3rd floor with say the 5th floor, in which both have similar views! When dealing with a property that has amazing views or is a dungeon, well you need to tweak the formula a bit to satisfy the demand of this picky yet willingly wealthy Manhattan buyer pool.
New developments tend to give a default 15K-25K premium per floor in asking prices, unless otherwise re-negotiated by the buyer prior to contract signing.
When using these 3 main elements, I usually come up with a nice range to anticipate where the unit being analyzed MAY trade at! I always provide ranges as nobody is perfect and markets are sometimes inefficient - after all, a perfect buyer with unlimited funds may show up at a sellers door anytime; although this happened more frequently in 2006 and 2007 then is happening now.
The items that play a lesser role include:
a) properly discounting first and second floor apartments that are generally harder to sell because buyers are concerned about security, noise, traffic walking by, etc..
b) layout; sometimes a layout can be a hard sell such as a railroad style apartment
c) monthly expenses; general range for f/t doorman building is $1.25/$170/sft or so given the additional same amenities offered from the building - anything above this range must be properly compromised for via a lower purchase price and anything above this range should get a slight premium due to affordability
You may wonder why LOCATION is not included. Well that is because I base my consulting on IN-BUILDING TRANSACTIONS where location is static! The key is to make the analysis as simple as possible without introducing more variables into the equation. In my opinion, using neighboring comps is one way of saying, 'I cant find any useful comps to support this purchase price in the same building that you are buying into'. In-building comps are the best, hands down, to use for a property analysis. I only use neighboring/similar comps if there is insufficient data on in-building comps to conduct an analysis - and when I do, you better find the closest property and the building with the most similar set of amenities offered. Once you start changing the variables your valuation technique will get more and more flawed. Even comparing one line of a building to another line of the same building can be argued as flawed because of the difference in layout, level of natural sunlight, and exposures/view that come from being in a different section of the building. I have seen buildings where the A-line trades at a significant discount to say the C-line simply because of the location of each line.
So there you have it, my summed up method for valuing Manhattan real estate. The part that can't be taught is the gut instinct that comes from viewing a property and seeing how it compares to hundreds of similar units I have seen over the past 5 years. That's the art of the valuation process.



Posted by perry
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 12:40 PM
hi noah, enjoyed reading your article. what does the role of outdoor space play in your valuation method? i'm assuming that just like layout and levels of light, that outdoor space is no different; garden vs. terrace (with views) vs. terrace with views of other apts vs. terrace with court yard view or the backyards of your neighbors, etc.
Posted by Noah
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 01:15 PM
perry - thx. Depends if its balcony or terrace or patio or private rooftop w/ rights, but yes def plays a role. Thanks for pointing out.
For balc, usually you are comparing to other comparable unit with one too, so no change there. If not, then add $20/sft or so for premium of balcony.
If big terrace on higher than 1st floor, than you need to vary based on how large...if its 300sft, then add $60/sft, if its 500sft, add $75/sft, if more, add a bit more premium. If ground floor, than that may negate some premium for concerns over security, etc..
Not too familiar with townhouse roofdeck/rights deals.
If patio, same as if ground floor terrace. Premium over balcony, yes, but a bit less than higher floor terrace premiums.
Posted by perry
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 02:37 PM
noah, thanks for your reply. assuming that it's terrace/rooftop w/rights, and 500 sq ft, would your $75/sft apply or would it be more because it's with rights?
Posted by Noah
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 02:47 PM
good for a starting point. have to research others exactly like that to get a better idea, and how those traded compared to other in bldg units that didnt have those features.
sorry, never did any of those deals
Posted by perry
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 02:52 PM
noah, thanks for your reply. i have a 530sf private roof area, on the second floor, with rights. i'm planning to build it out with a deck which would cover approx the same square area. in order to help justify the costs associated, i'm trying to understand how much psf of value a private terrace with rights would add to my apt. assuming that it's private rooftop w/rights, and 530 sq ft, would your $75/sft apply or would it be more because it's private with rights? what's the value unfinished vs. finished rooftop?
Posted by perry
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 03:02 PM
noah, sorry for the double post, i mistakenly posted an incomplete thought.
Posted by Scott
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 04:47 PM
I have a real estate service in Florida as well as in NJ and what I can tell you from experience is that almost 90% of real estate licensees in BOTH areas who are no longer in the business, it has to do with them not understanding the macro side of things. Keep in mind that many people got involved in real estate during the "boom" and made money easily. They weren't interested in the macroeconomics of the country. If they did understand, then I'd say the 90% number comes down to 50-60%. Macro knowledge intrigues people when you teach it to them and creates a sense of trust like "Wow..this guy knows what he's doing."
Posted by Noah
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 06:33 PM
the value that comes with the 'rights' is more of a selling point, as the person who buys it will likely never build on it, and chances are they wont get a developer coming in paying huge premiums just for that buildable rights in your TH.
So, i would value the finished roofdeck quite differently than the unfinished roofdeck and would focus there. If roof is unfinished, not really useable, just there, with rights, I would significantly lower the premium from $75/sft. However, if roof is wonderfully finished, useable, entertainable, etc., w/ rights, then you get closer to that mark, i would think. Again, didnt do any of those deals in THs so I dont have actual experience with it to pass on.
Posted by Noah
Mon Jul 27th, 2009 06:34 PM
Scott - I can totally see that in a market like Florida that was much worse hit than Manhattan.
And I agree with the trust, having a general knowledge of whats 'going on', certainly adds to your credibility and loyalty with the consumer. Thanks for the comment!
Posted by Invest in Real Estate
Tue Jul 28th, 2009 09:55 AM
Those who are interested about making an investment especially in one of the properties available in the Sarasota real estate market should ascertain that all the details and subtleties written in the agreement are read carefully with a full understanding of its entirety.
Posted by Dale Monroe
Tue Jul 28th, 2009 12:03 PM
It always seems that Manhattan real estate continues to go up. Noah, I found your blog post to be both informative and enlightening. Kudos!
Posted by Noah
Tue Jul 28th, 2009 12:13 PM
Dale - thanks...well Manhattan did have a sharp, fierce wave down in Q4/Q1, so now markets are kind of normalizing
Posted by oak homes NY
Tue Jul 28th, 2009 04:27 PM
great blog
Posted by bender
Tue Jul 28th, 2009 06:15 PM
Noah, a clarification of your terrace answer - does the $75/sqft apply to the sq ftage of the terrace or the apt? IOW, 500 sq foot terrace in a 1000 sqft apt, aply the 75 to the 500 or the 1000?
Do terraces trade for a bigger premium in bigger or smaller apts? My gut tells me the former, but I'd love your opinion.
Posted by Jean
Wed Jul 29th, 2009 12:59 AM
New York! New York! Who wouldn't want to have a place here? Thanks for your tips. Great info. Hey, I know a real estate coach who could also help many in the real estate industry make money despite the current crisis.
Posted by Noah
Wed Jul 29th, 2009 07:39 AM
Bender - actually, I meant the total INTERIOR sft..since you dont count exterior sft in marketing of interior total size, I add the premium to the overall price per sft of the deal based on interior size.
For example, you have 2 exactly same units on same floor in same condition in same bldg, one w/ terrace:
1) 1000sft sells for $900/sft or $900,000
2) 1000sft + 500sft terrace sells for $975 - $1,000/sft, or $975K - $1M, valuing the terrace at 75,000 - 100,000.
that 75-100/sft premium is starting point. add in more for quality of terrace and livability, usability, and conditions surrounding the outdoor space. deduct for less quality.
Posted by Ourdoor space lover
Sun Aug 23rd, 2009 10:16 PM
Noah,
I am confused by your valuation for outdoor space. In this article and year, you say to apply ~$75/sq ft to the interior size of an apartment when it has an outdoor space.
Yet, in 2005, you suggested that outdoor space commanded a premium of $400/sq ft for that outdoor space.
http://www.urbandigs.com/2005/11/outsdoor_spacef.html
I'd be grateful if you could please clarify your thoughts on the issue. I understand that it definitely is a different market today.
Thanks
Posted by Seeking Clarification
Tue Feb 2nd, 2010 02:07 PM
Noah -- Similar to "Outdoor Space Lover," I am seeing the discrepancy in your 2005 and 2009 articles regarding valuing outdoor space and would also be very grateful to hear your thoughts.
Thanks in advance!
Posted by Mbt
Wed Jun 2nd, 2010 11:32 PM
I think another reason fees are not being paid and free months not offered is that prices have come down. Apartments are moving but part of the reason is that prices came down to a point at which they will move.
Posted by I Buy Houses
Thu Jul 1st, 2010 03:35 AM
Thanks this information helps me with my business.
Posted by urbandigs
Sat Dec 8th, 2012 04:57 PM
sorry for the delay as only now found these comments.
The discrepancy is how I calculated the outdoor space formula in the 2005 blogpost.
In 2005 post -- I used $400 a sft for the outdoor space size
In 2009 post -- I started using a smaller scaled formula based on interior size apt, but that was mostly for smaller terraces and beyond. For example, small balconies wont demand 75 per sft for a 1000sft apt...that would value the balcony at 75k. That balcony is probably worth closer to 30k or so.
Its such a tough thing to answer as every situation is unique, every outdoor space is unique in what it offers. A 2000sft loft in Tribeca with private ph rooftop with hudson river views, will get significantly more than a ground floor unit in ues that has a similar size outdoor garden.
Sorry for the discrepancy though, as Ive navigated through this crazy world we call Manhattan real estate, Ive tweaked how I look at valuing outdoor space based on what Ive seen buyers bid for in the field.