My Brownstone (TWNH) in Bed-Stuy

Posted by Christine Toes on September 20, 2007 at 8.50 AM

It's been a while since I posted about my decision to take my $200K and use it to buy a $750K two family townhouse in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn instead of an approximately 640 sq ft new development condo in Manhattan.

Side note: Many people use the word "brownstone" as a generic category to describe all rowhouses or townhouses. The term "brownstone" refers to a brown sandstone which was a popular building material in the late 1800s and early 1900s. In the same vein, limestones are made up of... Limestone. Rowhouses that are not made of brownstone or limestone are generally referred to as townhouses. I bought a townhouse.

After the New York Magazine article yesterday cited Bedford Stuyvesant & Crown Heights as the highest risk areas to purchase in NYC, a reader asked how I was feeling about my purchase. I'm still feeling good about my purchase. I was able to get in before rates went crazy, so I got a 6.125% 5 year interest only ARM instead of the 6.5% I *might* be able to get today (I question whether I would have been able to get a jumbo mortgage on this purchase right now. I own another property and my *net* income as a real estate agent doesn't look all that great on my tax returns. So I probably wouldn't qualify for this mortgage right now).

My payments for a 5 year interest only ARM at a 6.125% loan are $3,646. At a 6.5% rate, they would be $3,742, which would decrease my cash flow as well as my purchasing power. So even if I could buy the same house right now for $20K less, it's probably a wash.

I've been keeping my eye on the market to see if I missed out & could have gotten something nicer. 585 Macon looks promising. It's larger than my house and has original details, and could probably be had for the same price. I like the location of my house better, it's a closer to the subway. But I could have received higher rental income by having the extra floor. I'm not sure I would have been able to afford the higher taxes and 4 floors to renovate instead of 3. I will save my "contractor" stories for another post.

When I saw 576 Monroe listed, I had a moment of panic... The blocks between Stuyvesant and Lewis are gorgeous and depending on the exact location, are in the Stuyvesant Heights Historic District, which has some "cache" to it (although then owners have to abide by the landmarks rules, which can be a pain when renovating). It turns out that the house doesn't have any fireplaces and most of the original details have been removed. So I wouldn't have been interested in this property, despite the attractive price. When you buy a Brooklyn townhouse/brownstone, you want all the glorious pre-war details: fireplaces, mouldings, original light fixtures, the works!

The New York Magazine article cited a lot of recent price reductions in Bed-Stuy/Crown Heights. The price reductions in the type of property I purchased are almost all on Hart and Halsey streets, or on other blocks really far from the A trains at Nostrand and Utica (most of them are near the G train which goes practically nowhere), or they are on blocks that aren't as nice. The price reductions are $10K - $15K price reductions on $685K - $850K properties, which doesn't exactly indicate to me that the sky is falling. Even still, keep your eyes open, because there will probably be more good deals to come! If a lot of people did get into risky ARMs a few years back, the foreclosures predicted could really happen. The buyers of the potential foreclosures could bring some new blood with more money into the neighborhood, though.

The block where my house is, MacDonough Street & Malcolm X, is mostly families. There aren't any young people hanging out on their stoops playing loud music, which is a misconception a lot of people have about Bed Stuy. Bed Stuy is VERY location specific. Everyone on my block meticulously manicures their front lawns with shrubbery and flowers. I'm actually a bit nervous because I don't have a green thumb at all - the one plant in my apartment has been half dead for months - and I'm not sure I will be able to keep up with the Jones'! There is no indication (at least not yet) of people foreclosing on their properties. Frequently when there are impending foreclosures you start seeing poorly maintained houses, broken windows that haven't been repaired, lots of trash, etc. If I start noticing a change, I will let you know, but my block two streets over (MacDonough between Stuyvesant and Lewis) was recently voted the "Greenest Block in Brooklyn," so I am really not worried. And the 2006 commercial winner was also just a few blocks from my house, where my favorite coffee place, Bread Stuy, is.

The other thing to consider in the New York Magazine article is that it is looking only to 2010, which is only 2 - 3 years away! I bought this house as a ten year investment, and I am hoping to keep it forever. Although I can't be certain until the work is done, I will probably live in the top floor apartment & rent out the owner's duplex. Then at some point in the future, when I need a larger space, I will move into the owner's duplex and rent out the 3rd floor rental.

When you look at the "frightening" numbers in the NY Magazine article, it looks like there is a worst case scenario chance of a 25% decline in prices in the next 3 years. What would that mean for me? Pretty much nothing because I'm keeping the place for 10 years and who knows where the market will be in 10 years. My rental projections indicate a small loss for the first 2 years as I pay down the home equity line, a break even for the next year, and I will be cash flow positive for the next 7 years or however long I keep it.

I never recommend that my customers go into buying an apartment with a 3 year timeframe. I always recommend that they plan to buy and hold for at least 5 years. The entry and exit costs of buying a condo or townhouse (closing costs of 3-6% when you buy and then costs of hiring a broker, etc. when you sell) are too high to plan on keeping something for only 3 years.

My grandfather's stock strategy when he worked at General Electric Company was to invest the same amount every quarter, no matter what the market was doing. With 18 years of $10,000 gifts of stock to each grandkid, he paid for four grandkids' college tuition and my sister and I had enough money left over for a down payment on our first homes. It's great that GE did so well & I am SO lucky that my grandfather was so consistent about saving. But it kills me a bit that my parents could have bought a BUILDING on 9th street and Avenue A for $10,000 thirty years ago when they lived there! But they didn't. Can you imagine what that would be worth in value and cash flow today? The people with a "buy and hold" strategy who select their purchases with a careful eye towards value, cash flow, and their own needs & personal financial situation will do well no matter what. This is New York Friikin City and people will pay to live here. Did I take a risk by buying in an "up and coming" neighborhood? Absolutely. I'm only 30 years old and if I am going to take a risk, the time is now. Everything in life is "risk vs. reward," right? Would purchasing that 638 sq ft one bedroom at Gramercy by Starck have been a good 10 year investment? Of course! But now I have two rental units instead of one. And I wouldn't be learning this much about townhouses, construction, and emerging neighborhoods. Only time will tell whether my investment strategy pays off, but I feel as if my life is so much more interesting by having taken the road less traveled by.

So here are photos of some of the parts of my house that made me choose this one over others on the market:

2ndFlLRFplCropped.JPG

2ndFloorDECFPLCropped.JPG

3rdFlFPLCrop.JPG

stainedglasssupercrop.JPG

And these parts need some work (I'm renovating both of the kitchens):

RentalKitchenCrop.JPG

OwnersKitcrop.JPG

Comments (11)

I love the fireplaces! Good luck with the renovations!

I'm surprised though about that 5-year interest-only ARM if you are planning to keep the house for 10+years. Are you hoping to refinance before 5 years at a lower rate?

Posted by BK | September 20, 2007 11:47 AM

I needed to get my payments as low as possible for the first few years as I pay off the home equity line for the renovations. Otherwise I would be pretty cash flow negative after heat, hot water, insurance, & taxes. So yes, I am definitely going to refinance before I get hit with a higher rate in 5 years...

Posted by Toes | September 20, 2007 5:36 PM

As a long term investor, the 5 year IO makes no sense. Due to the lowering of rates, we may see a whiff of inflation. If a 30 year fixed is 9% in 5 years you may get eaten alive..

In terms of risk-reward, a 30 year fixed is a no brainer for a long term investement horizon

Posted by uwsider | September 20, 2007 6:34 PM

Congrats for this great brownstone, the question is what is the best way to invest $200K these days,
1) Buy a brownstone in Bed-Stuy.
2) Live in a rental, buy gold and put it in a safe for 10 years.

Prior to the 2000 election they warned us the GW Bush is like Hoover, the cowboy and his baby genius exceeded all expectation opening the Pandora box of endless war and not paying for it. I never lived in the 20s but reading about it makes me feel like we are in the 20s. I personally made a similar decision and instead of 1BR in the UWS decided to buy a house in Riverdale in similar price range. Did I make the right decision?
Your name is Noah, lets talk after the flood…. I hope it will be just a Northeaster.

Posted by Ronen | September 20, 2007 9:07 PM

just found out that this lender provides higher loan limits (compared to the conforming loan limits) and better rates:

http://www.valleynationalbank.com/mortgage/rates_main.asp

if Toes has taken the 20 year fixed (bi-weekly) at 6.25%, the cost would work out to be (26 payments * 550 * 3.04 =) $3,622, same as the ARM program above. A bit too good to be true?

Any one has "loan experience" with this bank? And does anyone know other lenders with similar products? Thanks.

Posted by CL | September 20, 2007 10:53 PM

Hi - I may have missed it, but the New York magazine article actually referred to Bed-Stuy & Bushwick, not Bed-Stuy & Crown Heights. If I'm wrong, could you point out to me where Crown Heights was mentioned?

Posted by Jim | September 21, 2007 2:02 AM

This is the reason we're in the current subprime mess

"So yes, I am definitely going to refinance before I get hit with a higher rate in 5 years..."

why make the same mistake?

Posted by uwsider | September 21, 2007 7:30 AM

Has anyone had any success besides dumb luck (timing a purchase in an appreciating market) operating an investment property that is cash flow negative? I am sorry this is exactly the reason why I sat on the sidelines buying investment properties for the last 3 years. It made no sense. I have had experience owning properties in the past and if I am not pulling in at least $500 a month extra in income over operating expenses it could spell disaster. Especially when you are in the +$700k range. Also these old homes you need to be making cash flow positive out of the gate. With all those repairs needed. If you are not a person that can do the plumbing/electrical/structural fixes on your own you have two bad months and you are wiped out.
What is the rental pool like in this area. Is this a community that has a number of Section-8 type renters (trying to be politically correct here). If so watch out during the holiday months as they might not even pay rent it all goes to gifts.

I am more into the Warren Buffet property investment philosophy. If it dont make sense dont buy it. The last 3-4 years we lost site of this reality. Now everyone is buying investment properties with Interest Only ARM mortgages? It use to be that you would buy investment properties that operate on their own with 30 year fixed. At least you are building equity and not banking on appreciation. After 5 years there wont even be a dent in the principle.

This one smells like trouble.
Best of luck though, i hope it works out for you.

Posted by mike | September 21, 2007 2:45 PM

Mike - Well keep in mind that my colleague Christine is who purchased this, not me. Not sure what the rental income will be in that neighborhood but Christine is pretty smart about her investments so Im sure she crunched all the #s.

Me personally, the only time I tried renting I had a loss and was making only 90% of my total expense back. I ended up moving back into the property in the end before selling it.

Im waiting on sidelines now trying to time my entry again, so that means Ill be renting unless a correction hits or a great deal pops up!

Posted by Noah | September 21, 2007 2:55 PM

I will keep everyone posted on the investment & yes, I'm aware that interest rates could continue to rise. My past two purchases have worked out extremely well for me and as a 10 year (possibly longer) investment, I don't see this one being any different. I receive rate updates weekly from three mortgage brokers via email and I was able to re-fi my apt literally the one day the 30 year fixed went to 5.875 a few months back. So I am on top of rate changes like a madwoman. When it becomes worthwhile to me to make a change, I will make a change.

I've heard enough stories of people living in a two family house with a tenant and as rents rise, the tenant ends up paying for everything and the owner lives basically for free. Please also keep in mind that this isn't just purely an investment for me - I am most likely moving into the smaller unit (which rents for about $1600) and renting out the owner's duplex (which rents for about $2600). And when some crazy guy decides to marry me and we don't want to pay $9K a month rent to live in a 3 bedroom in Manhattan (you couldn't pay me enough money to move to the burbs, I am a NYC girl through and through), I will be living with my four gorgeous fireplaces, high ceilings, mouldings, and original light fixtures 20 minutes from the city, and my kids will be playing in our backyard! It made much more sense to me to spend my $200K this way than spending $750K for a 650 sq ft condo in Manhattan. I also don't want to invest in areas that I know nothing about and where I can't stop by the property every week or two to make sure it is in good shape. So after looking briefly at houses in my mom's town of Greenville, SC, I realized there was no way I could own something there, make cash flow or break even on cash flow after hiring a property manager and still be able to sleep at night.

Posted by Toes | September 27, 2007 1:47 PM

We definitely live in two different worlds but the basics are still the same. I live in Boise, Idaho and $200,000 gets you a very handsome cash flow at a fixed rate. Of course most investors here do not make the NYC incomes and therefore usually are in a similar situation with less zeros involved in the equation. I personally own a duplex that is a break even scenario with an after tax cash flow. My rents are just $1150 total for both units. I appreciate the fact that you view the investment from a more than just purely numbers standpoint.

Posted by Tyler Hill | March 10, 2008 2:27 PM

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