2nd Avenue Subway Update
A: Believe it or not the 2nd Avenue Subway project is alive and well as we near the beginning of tunnel construction below 96th Street on 2nd Avenue. Although I missed the community meeting on Monday, PeakGuy did go and found out that construction is set to start in 40 Months!!
Tunnels are expected to begin construction in 3 1/2 years from 92nd Street to 62nd Street with new stations at 96th, 86th, 72nd, and expansion of a existing Lexington Avenue/63rd Street station. Also set begin construction are track and systems from 105th Street to aproximately 62nd Street. Download the .pdf from MTA site.
Here is a conceptual drawing of Phase 1:
In case you missed the Discovery Channel on how Tunnels are built, they will be using a boring machine that looks something like this and will use the streets as entry points 1 section at a time....
According to Wikipedia: Tunnel boring machines are used as an alternative to drilling and blasting (D&B) methods. A TBM has the advantages of not disturbing surrounding soil and producing a smooth tunnel wall. This significantly reduces the cost of lining the tunnel, and makes them suitable to use in built-up areas. The key disadvantage is cost. TBMs are expensive to construct, difficult to transport and require significant infrastructure.
A conceptual drawing of the boring process:
What To Expect During Build: Streets to be completely demolished during the boring process and tunnel build. Local businesses on 2nd Avenue will have a rough time and will most likely go out of business temporarily with some type of city support program kicking into effect. A few years of loud noises, construction barriers, air pollution, and big time machines.
What To Expect Upon Subway Completion: A spike in real estate values for properties surrounding this brand new, technologically superior subway line to ease congestion on NYC's eastside. Buying a property that is discounted because it is too far East right now is probably a very wise idea when the subway construction begins; York Avenue & East End Avenue are my sleeper picks for 8-10 years down the road when subway is complete.
A conceptual drawing of what the 2nd Avenue Subway line will look like when it is completed in the summer of 2065; sorry couldn't help it.
Thanks to Glenn over at The Oil Drum:NYC, a great blog covering the energy markets, for going to the 2nd Avenue Subway community meeting Monday night and providing me with this latest information:
* They are going to have to reclaim some street space at the 96th Street station entrances to make it fit. Entrances on 93rd (east and west sides) and then another on the West side of 96th street. Either they are taking out parking or they might have to take out a lane of traffic. I'm guessing the parking...
* Because the 96th Street station is close to the surface (Cut and Cover technique) there is going to be massive construction for the 96th street station in the middle of the street for many months. This will create traffic chaos unless they do something to reduce the number of cars coming into Manhattan. Perhaps they could divert it to the FDR or York. Lexington Ave is already a disaster area.
* The 72nd Street station will be very deep and will not require the cut and cover technique. Entrances on 69th and 72nd. One of them will occupy where Patsy's Pizza is now. They are going to have to tear down a building on the NE corner of 72nd street for ventillation.
* There will be a meeting in May to discuss the 86th street station.
* Bids are going out in December and construction should begin in 2009 and last for 2-3 years. I think they said the first phase (96th to 63rd) will be done in 2012-13.
Posted by pantagleize
Thu Apr 6th, 2006 11:27 PM
It's crazy that there is NO STOP between Houston & 14th St.
Posted by El Angelo
Thu Apr 6th, 2006 11:32 PM
or, for that matter, on the "main line" between 72nd & 55th.
Posted by Noah
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 12:09 AM
yea I saw the comments on curbed lean that way too. Maybe its a funds thing? Could it be they had to sacrifice a few stops to get this thing to be cost feasible in the first place?
Posted by fowndr
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 03:35 AM
Don't forget about neighborhood / building watch groups that have been fighting planners about where these new access points will be. They fear what most of us would with a project of this scope - noise, pollution, traffic, inconvenience and property values slipping durring the construction.
Posted by fowndr
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 03:36 AM
Don't forget about neighborhood / building watch groups that have been fighting planners about where these new access points will be. They fear what most of us would with a project of this scope - noise, pollution, traffic, inconvenience and property values slipping durring the construction.
Posted by Scott Mercer
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 07:51 AM
Well, get ready for four years of construction, New Yorkers. I'm sure you're quite familiar with construction in the city, but a new subway has not been constructed in New York in living memory. I read that mostly they are using deep bore, and not cut and cover. This should minimize disturbances and streets sinking somewhat. But get ready for years of paranoid, shreiking newspaper headlines: "STREETS ARE SINKING!" "WORKERS DIE IN HORRIBLE PIT!!!" Have fun. I'll be coming to the city in 2013 to ride when it's finished.
Posted by Capt_Bob
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 06:02 PM
It shows the completion date for the entire line as 2065!!! Is that a typo or are they serious?!?! It's going to take approximately 55 years to build about 10 miles of two track subway!?!? If the date is correct then they must be digging it not with this high tech boring machine, as alleged, but rather by hand using tea spoons.
Posted by Noah
Fri Apr 7th, 2006 06:22 PM
Sorry Capt_Bob that was a joke on my part, which is why I put the "Sorry, I couldnt help it" afterwards...
Estimated completion date is 2013, assuming everything begins in 2009 as they are hoping.
Posted by Andy
Sat Apr 8th, 2006 12:31 AM
Yes, they should have at least TWO stops between 14th and Houston.
Posted by cda
Sat Apr 8th, 2006 10:29 PM
Well, I don't know about *2* stops, but at least a stop at 2nd and 7th, or something to service the east village. Subway transportation there has always been substandard...
Also, you guys have any maps of what the T will look like below Houston?
Posted by Matt
Sun Apr 9th, 2006 11:24 PM
I heard that the Italian restaurant Tony's at 83rd and 2nd will be relocated because the 86th St. subway entrance plaza will use the space.
Posted by Larry V.
Sat Apr 15th, 2006 03:45 AM
Here's info about the complete alignment:
http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sas_alignment.htm
Posted by Anastasia
Tue Apr 18th, 2006 02:13 PM
Would it be too much of an effort to connect the new line to all the west side trains when it reaches 125th Street? All this mobilization and still a missed opportunity to create an easier route from northern Manhattan to the Upper East.
Posted by dave
Mon Jun 19th, 2006 05:17 PM
there *is* a station between 55th and 72nd -- at 63rd and lex. (granted, doesn't do you much good if you want a one-seat ride coming from uptown).
That stretch of trackage from 57th to 72nd has to accomadate the junction between the 63rd street tunnel and the main line, and runs just above the 60th street tunnels and the bi-level 63rd street tunnel. The only range of possible station locations would be (assuming typical B division station legnth of 2.5 blocks):
57-59th street
67-69th street (69th is already the southern end of the proposed 72nd street station).
So really, there's no room there for an intermediate station... sorry folks.
Posted by Dave
Mon Jun 19th, 2006 05:20 PM
Anastasia -- the SAS could only be connected to the 8th avenue/CPW/Concourse lines that far north. All the other routes are A-division, and are incompatible with the B-division (including SAS) lines. Ridership from north of 125 with destinations to the east side north of 53rd street is likely not large enough to merit the expense of building the conection and expanding service (not to mention adding to the congestion on the 125-145 stretch of the IND west side line.
Posted by alexb
Sun Sep 10th, 2006 10:48 PM
With an entrance to the 14th st stop at 12th st and an entrance ot the Houston stop at 2nd st, I don't think an additional stop at 7th st is really necessary. Besides, do we really want the far East Village to be transformed to a commuter area for workers in East Midtown? I think it is kind of nice to have some parts of Manhattan outside the reach of immediate convenience (and therefore having lower rents).
Although it would be difficult to put a stop at 59th or 60th st, it would be a big help for anyone from Roosevelt Island trying to get anywhere in East Midtown. With that stop, they could take the tram to 2nd Ave and move all up and down the east side. Currently, the stops and route of the 63rd st line make travel from Roosevelt Island and Queens a pain to get to East Midtown.
Why do we have to wait three years just for construction to begin? This seems ridiculous as the stations appear to have been designed and the route decided upon and thoroughly researched. Is it a financial issue? Bureacratic? Does anyone know?
I am also curious if anyone has heard of any real talk about extending the SAS west on 125th st for a transfer with the 23 at Lenox and connecting with the 8th Ave line and/or extending it south to connect with the AC via tracks through the Transit Museum (Court St Station). Keeping with the original vision of the designers of the IND, this would create a fully interconnected system providing local and express service to all major parts of NYC via cross-platform transfers.
The C train could even be eliminated this way, and the T could run on the 8th Ave local north of 125th and the Fulton local in Brooklyn. Not having to share the Cranberry tunnel any longer, service on the A train could eventually double and the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station could be used as the massive transfer point it was designed for. B service, currently lacking, would have to increase to compensate for the loss of the C on the 8th Ave local north of Columbus Circle.
http://www.rpa.org/projects/transportation/metrolink.html
Check out what the Regional Plan Association thought should be done with the Second Avenue Subway at the link above. Their plan extended routes through 4 boroughs and out to JFK.
Posted by emmie
Wed Apr 18th, 2007 12:09 AM
where do I get info on the meeting in May regarding the 86th Street station?
Posted by Barbara
Tue Apr 24th, 2007 07:04 PM
Please let me know what building is coming down on 72nd Street, the ad says the ne corner, I think this is incorrect, do you mean the nw corner??
Do you mean Falk drugstore and 2 buildings next to that? The ne corner is a huge building....please advise
Posted by Bobbi
Mon Jun 11th, 2007 09:43 PM
Tonight I realized for the 1st time that where I live, 55th and 2nd Ave. will be so affected by the 2nd Ave. line with a station right at that location. Please tell me what specifically to expect by way of "noise and air pollution" and when to expect it-and for how long a period. Would your inclination be to sell my apt asap in order to avoid a serious deterioration in value as the construction for this project looms?
Posted by Tig
Tue Sep 4th, 2007 03:16 PM
A guy from the construction company just emailed me about this. Apparently they are having trouble where the brewery (owned by Ehrets, Rupperts, Schlitz, and then Strohs) . They ran into a foundation wall under 92nd St – 93rd St on 2nd Avenue. They uncovered a lot of it, but they need a map of the building before they can get around it. This goes against the info that construction starts in 2009. I really don't know if this means destruction for the building, I know that it had a bit of Marx Brothers history. Harpo would often use its clock tower to know what time it was when he lived at E 93rd and Lex.
Posted by Kyrst
Wed Oct 3rd, 2007 12:16 PM
Hi. I live at 95th and 2nd. Does anyone know about the city's construction noise ordiannce codes? The city states that any construction, including street construction, must take place between the hours of 7am and 6pm on weekdays. So far they've been starting at 7am, but still using extremely loud equipment until 10pm each night. The young kids in my building aren't getting enough sleep and look like zombies when they leave for school. Is there some kind of a loophole since this is subway construction? Obviously most subway work is done in the wee hours, but in the existing subway lines. It seems to me exterior construction should be limited by the same noise ordinances as everything else.
Any info?
Posted by JUDITH C. PROTAS
Thu Nov 1st, 2007 07:21 PM
I'M JUST EAST OF 2ND ON 74. REPEAT WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT THE TECHNIQUES BEING USED AT THE 72ND STATION, WOULD YOU PLEASE? IS IT DEEP BORE OR CUT aND COVER. HOW MUCH BOOM AND BANG AND SHUDDER AM I APT TO BE AWARE OF? AND LIKE KYRST, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE SLEEPING TIME WE'LL HAVE...
llaffhappy4@yahoo.com
p.s at 85, i don't expect to live through the worst of it, but friends might be interested
Posted by Julio Hernandez-Miyares
Sun Nov 16th, 2008 01:36 PM
For those of you that complain about noise in Manhattan or any part of New York City, can you remember you live in New York City. Hard to build a subway without noise except of course in the instance the tunnel is deep and boring is used as opposed to cut and cover.
Oh yes, there will be traffic disruptions and some existing buildings will be knocked down and you can't have a station in your living room so you may just have to walk a few blocks.